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	<title>Comments on: The people ignited will never be defeated**</title>
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	<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/</link>
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		<title>By: jrw</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/comment-page-1/#comment-282008</link>
		<dc:creator>jrw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lesbiandad.net/?p=757#comment-282008</guid>
		<description>At least this week we made it more likely that the judiciary will eventually agree with us by electing a Democratic president rather than a Republican one.

I am sad to say I have stopped giving money to HRC or anyone else fighting this fight, because their tactics and strategy continue to not only fail, but increase resistance. Of course there would be resistance anyway, but if we had paid attention to strategy rather than principles, we wouldn&#039;t have 39 states that now specifically discriminate against same sex marriage. If we would stop talking about &quot;marriage&quot; and start talking about legal and financial rights, we would get a lot further. 

I am also sick to death of the disorganization of our efforts. The Obama campaign was successful in large part because it was possibly the most organized Democratic (or any other) campaign ever. If we learn from that exampel we might someday be successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least this week we made it more likely that the judiciary will eventually agree with us by electing a Democratic president rather than a Republican one.</p>
<p>I am sad to say I have stopped giving money to HRC or anyone else fighting this fight, because their tactics and strategy continue to not only fail, but increase resistance. Of course there would be resistance anyway, but if we had paid attention to strategy rather than principles, we wouldn&#8217;t have 39 states that now specifically discriminate against same sex marriage. If we would stop talking about &#8220;marriage&#8221; and start talking about legal and financial rights, we would get a lot further. </p>
<p>I am also sick to death of the disorganization of our efforts. The Obama campaign was successful in large part because it was possibly the most organized Democratic (or any other) campaign ever. If we learn from that exampel we might someday be successful.</p>
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		<title>By: m2inVT</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/comment-page-1/#comment-281440</link>
		<dc:creator>m2inVT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lesbiandad.net/?p=757#comment-281440</guid>
		<description>We will be marching with you in spirit. My partner and I decided that we must become more active here in our own state with Freedom to Marry. We are sick and tired of the discrimation.  Be safe, be well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We will be marching with you in spirit. My partner and I decided that we must become more active here in our own state with Freedom to Marry. We are sick and tired of the discrimation.  Be safe, be well.</p>
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		<title>By: Lesbian Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/comment-page-1/#comment-281431</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesbian Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lesbiandad.net/?p=757#comment-281431</guid>
		<description>Re: the SF protest march, Civic Center to Dolores Park, gathering at 5:30.

There&#039;s a website for it: http://protest8.blogspot.com/.

Also there are a few comments on a post at the Protest 8 site wondering what the heck a protest would do (sway conservatives? &#039;course not. bring about another vote in another 8 years? not the object.).  Several commenters do a fine job of explaining the function of popular protest (indicate degree of strong opposition publicly. rally folks to keep up the fight.).

This never should have been up for a vote in the first place, so strong response to the outcome -- to my mind -- is part of a continued opposition to the protective function of the judiciary being circumvented by a majority vote (on the ballot due to paid signature gatherers, not due to grassroots sentiment), not just a sour grapes response to &quot;the people&#039;s will.&quot;  

We all full well know that if &quot;the people&quot; could vote at the time of Brown v. Board of Education, or Loving vs. State of VA, any other Black civil rights legal milestone, &quot;the people&quot; would have voted in exactly this way.  It is one of the core narratives of civil rights movements, that the judiciary anticipates popular sentiment by a minimum of one, usually two decades plus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the SF protest march, Civic Center to Dolores Park, gathering at 5:30.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a website for it: <a href="http://protest8.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://protest8.blogspot.com/</a>.</p>
<p>Also there are a few comments on a post at the Protest 8 site wondering what the heck a protest would do (sway conservatives? &#8216;course not. bring about another vote in another 8 years? not the object.).  Several commenters do a fine job of explaining the function of popular protest (indicate degree of strong opposition publicly. rally folks to keep up the fight.).</p>
<p>This never should have been up for a vote in the first place, so strong response to the outcome &#8212; to my mind &#8212; is part of a continued opposition to the protective function of the judiciary being circumvented by a majority vote (on the ballot due to paid signature gatherers, not due to grassroots sentiment), not just a sour grapes response to &#8220;the people&#8217;s will.&#8221;  </p>
<p>We all full well know that if &#8220;the people&#8221; could vote at the time of Brown v. Board of Education, or Loving vs. State of VA, any other Black civil rights legal milestone, &#8220;the people&#8221; would have voted in exactly this way.  It is one of the core narratives of civil rights movements, that the judiciary anticipates popular sentiment by a minimum of one, usually two decades plus.</p>
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		<title>By: lizk</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/comment-page-1/#comment-281422</link>
		<dc:creator>lizk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lesbiandad.net/?p=757#comment-281422</guid>
		<description>I wish I could just post, I don’t know – a color, something other than words, of which I am fresh out.  But when I try to think of a color all I get is white-hot rage.  I am so barely able to be civil to people who seem to have no clue what this feels like. What 30+ years of this, in my lifetime, has felt like.

I&#039;m sure I will be able to intellectualize some other position, eventually, and in the meantime am just trying to keep my commitment to non-violence.  Thank you to all out there who can bear with us for the moment, and who are willing to stand with us in through the long fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I could just post, I don’t know – a color, something other than words, of which I am fresh out.  But when I try to think of a color all I get is white-hot rage.  I am so barely able to be civil to people who seem to have no clue what this feels like. What 30+ years of this, in my lifetime, has felt like.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure I will be able to intellectualize some other position, eventually, and in the meantime am just trying to keep my commitment to non-violence.  Thank you to all out there who can bear with us for the moment, and who are willing to stand with us in through the long fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2008/11/the-people-incited-will-never-be-defeated/comment-page-1/#comment-281346</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It makes me wish I could fly out and join in on the fight, but as I too have real world responsibilities, I watch from afar and send my support in any way I can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It makes me wish I could fly out and join in on the fight, but as I too have real world responsibilities, I watch from afar and send my support in any way I can.</p>
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